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ZPOC
Nov 8, 2015 17:22:12 GMT -5
mars likes this
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 8, 2015 17:22:12 GMT -5
A little test video I made some month ago and totally forgot about. Experimented some more with physical g-force simulation but it's just not working well with Bullet Physics. Too subtle change lead to unpleasant (and vertigo inducing) effects. In some cases it's nice (being hurled through the air) but in other situations horrible (certain movement produced by certain input commands). So I reworked a bit the animated G-force simulation instead since it's more controllable and I doubt anybody notices if the simulation is animated or really physical. Also added closed cockpits with visual feeds from the head or whatever place a zoid could transmit this. Included also an orientation indicator since it is interestingly very hard to pilot in a closed cockpit if you have no direct view of your surroundings. And the modified damage system went a bit crazy this time By the way (for the zoids-pros around here). When I checked that Japanese DB website I noticed that more zoids than I though have closed cockpits, is this right?
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Nov 9, 2015 2:40:57 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Nov 9, 2015 2:40:57 GMT -5
I've never really thought about how many Zoids have closed cockpits.... I know that there are certainly a few with gunner stations that are closed, but I can only think of a few with cockpits like that; Geno (of course), Dibison (sorta), Storch's is really weird, in that it isn't exactly closed (it even lacks a windscreen!) but it isn't exactly open, is it? I think the entire Grade-Up line has closed cockpits, as does Gunbluster.
Still, your stuff looks great, and I love seeing the updates!
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ZPOC
Nov 9, 2015 5:40:47 GMT -5
mars likes this
Post by Falcarius on Nov 9, 2015 5:40:47 GMT -5
It depends how you define "closed", but generally Republic Zoids tend to have canopies while Empire Zoids will have armoured cockpits with only the eyes or a slit to see through. However, a few Dark Army Zoids have canopies, and most Republic Zoids from the Grade-Up era, "borrowed" designs like Storm Sworder and Liger Zero, and a handful of others such as Madthunder and König Wolf had armoured cockpits. Many of the Grade-Up Zoids also had opaque eyes instead of transparent ones, although I think all the non-canopy designs use visual feeds rather than physically looking through the eyes. If the cockpit is in the body rather than the head, there's a much higher chance of it being completely closed-off - examples include the Genos, the TransFighters, the Bio Zoids, and Deathsaurer's chest gunner. There's also a few cases where cockpit placement would make it impossible to look through the "eyes" anyway, such as Molga, Death Stinger, and Killer Dome. I also came across a nice picture of Gorem's cockpit setup while I was looking around - more screens than yours, but not all that different...
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Nov 9, 2015 12:55:04 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 9, 2015 12:55:04 GMT -5
Maethius: Took a look at some Storch images. I would consider it half-closed if I had to label it. Open is in my opinion like a shieldy where you can look around 180 degrees or close to it. Closed is for me the geno where you need visual feeds otherwise you are blind. That storch seems to have a closed cockpit but at the front a view pane. I would say around 30 degrees field of view, maybe less. I guess it needs some visual feed support otherwise it's like flying around with a sniper scope up your head all time. Falcarius: Nice find. Would be interesting to know what the makers had in mind these monitors work like. Could be just me but I feel more comfortable with screens laid out horizontally than vertically but most probably the upper screens are some kind of status or radar monitors. Food for thoughts I guess.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:42:06 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Nov 9, 2015 15:42:06 GMT -5
I see all of those smaller screens as MFD's (Multi-Function Displays) that can track different equipment configurations. Perhaps you could also draw some inspiration from the setup of the Battletech simulator pods (I've probably brought them up earlier in the thread!): Nice thing about this is that it is a REAL cockpit as opposed to a game or anime screenshot. Just checked the start of the thread and, yep, I used this one. I can tell you that I was pretty darned good at this game, and there was a lot to track with the controls, but it would work well for many Zoids. You could assign MFD1 to your tail arc, MFD2 to your forward arc, MFD3 to your damage control, MFD4 to communications/ECM, and so on.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:55:49 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 9, 2015 15:55:49 GMT -5
What do you mean with "arc"? Sort of a camera attached in that direction?
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Nov 9, 2015 16:05:42 GMT -5
Post by Vig on Nov 9, 2015 16:05:42 GMT -5
Oh wow that is so freaking cool!!! Really feels like you're in the Geno and still able to practically fight without obscured vision. Loving how you can look around with the head and even back at yourself. I imagine the screens is how it may have been in earlier days of zoid technology. They seem to have the entire wall as a screen in the show. Don't change it though I love those screens! I'll leave this here for general interest: Liger zero Panzers cockpit when the power goes out and again after it reboots.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:50:49 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 9, 2015 17:50:49 GMT -5
Different cockpit layouts would be certainly a possibility. Screens certainly could be made goofier or more techi-style. The way it works right now each type of zoid (which can be also variations) is defined in an XML file which contains besides the model to use also the cockpit monitor layout. This layout defines what textures are monitors and which script class drives the monitor content. One monitor is set the primary monitor and can contain more than one script class allowing to cycle them. Looking at Maethius though it might be another solution to allow the player to select which monitor shows what. That would be actually not that difficult given the system in place right now. I somehow like the idea of just assigning script classes to monitors and not have a primary monitor you can cycle. This would result in different zoids to actually feel different. A liger has maybe fewer and smaller screens to not obscure the view while a geno can have more monitors since it's closed and is harder to pilot due to relying on visual feeds only. I'm not too fond of that liger screen layout there since it feels to me like blocking the view too much but it gave me some ideas I could toy with when I get the time.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:33:44 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 9, 2015 19:33:44 GMT -5
Two quick mockup tests of this idea on the liger. Your opinions?
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Nov 9, 2015 23:32:26 GMT -5
Post by Vig on Nov 9, 2015 23:32:26 GMT -5
oh those white screens in that picture just specifically pop up for the Panzer armour system. I believe it has to do with Aiming all those various heavy artillery weapons Equipped with the Panzer. Liger zero usually mas much better vision without them. The mockup tests there I do like that, I can see it working.You plan to make those extra screens like rear/ multi vision cameras? For data or both?
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Nov 10, 2015 12:45:43 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 10, 2015 12:45:43 GMT -5
I would say what Maethius mentioned seems an interesting approach. It has potential to allow for players to really make and foster a zoid on their own instead of just having standard run-of-the-mill zoids.
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Nov 10, 2015 15:00:59 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Nov 10, 2015 15:00:59 GMT -5
I think of an "arc" camera as almost a rear view mirror... a small view that shows another direction, and gives you access to the weapons or systems that can affect targets there. For instance, If you had a stack of arc views for Ultrasaurus, the right or starboard arc would give you access to its right side anti-aircraft cannon, its right side triple-AA battery, and its tail-mounted missile launchers (possibly even its tail cannons, if they could swing around that far)
Incidentally, you could also replace hardware screens with floating holographic displays with much the same effect.
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Nov 10, 2015 15:50:56 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 10, 2015 15:50:56 GMT -5
Personally I'm not too fond of holographic displays as they are a sort of cheap hack which feels tacked on most of the time. But that's personal taste I guess.
What goes for the arcs I'm still trying to figure out how that would work outside the cabinet game scenario, where you can interact with the monitors quite easily in real-time. For a conventional pc game scenario your controls are typically mapped to movement, weapon orientation and action buttons. Something like these side views and weapons would have to be automatic in that case (sort of self-shooting cannons). Do the zoids in the animé (or the back store of the model kit lines) work like this?
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Nov 11, 2015 11:17:57 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Nov 11, 2015 11:17:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure I would use the anime as a reference; Zoids tend to blur the line between animal and machine, so the question is, how much can it operate its weapons without pilot assistance? Another option would be to allow the player to select which arc they are actively controlling and the others could default to Zoid/automatic control. To preserve ammo, etc., the player could assign which weapons are automatic (if any). A good example of this kind of control might be the Mechwarrior games, also. The trick here is that everyone expects to run a Zoid around like a character, but it also has the features of an armored vehicle with multiple arcs of fire, and often with multiple operators. True, if you stick to 1-pilot Zoids it takes care of that aspect, but if you start using multi-crew units, like Dark Horn, the game can change quite a bit.
For instance, from a Dark Horn pilot station, you could plug in your course with waypoints and set your speed. The Zoid doesn't just run straight to them on autopilot; it knows to veer or dodge if under attack. Then you switch to the dorsal gunner position and set your Gatling to opportunity fire; manually taking control of it momentarily to mow down a Godos that your Horn runs by. An alert to the rear has you jump to the tailgunner position, where you send a couple of shots into a low flying Pteras. Then it's back to the pilot station where you release the auto mode and take over guidance and weapons. When you see a Dibison show up, you can click your Gatling MFD on and the display gives you a targeting reticle; you guide the Zoid using WASD or arrow keys while it maintains your set speed, but you use the mouse-cursor reticle to hammer the 'Bidon with Gat fire.
Have you played good ol' Mechwarrior 3?
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Nov 11, 2015 12:30:17 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Nov 11, 2015 12:30:17 GMT -5
No sorry, I never went to arcade machines. That has been before my time. I think I see the major direction this is going into but I'm still struggling to fit the pieces together and how this actually does not end up in a control cluster-f***. But that's most probably because I have no experience with that game. But I'm sure it has to go into that direction since aiming weapons in this cockpit mode is more difficult than in conventional zoids games since shooting is realistic (from the gun, not from the center of your view) and all this without an aiming reticule floating in the middle of your screen. Have to look into this once I get some free time... maybe over new year holidays or something like that.
EDIT: I'm also careful with stuff like auto-aiming and auto-firing. Such things often end up in cheating discussions in multi-player. Tricky topic... tricky topic.
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