ctnburn
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This Zoid can only be piloted by pilots with superier piloting ability.
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Post by ctnburn on Dec 15, 2012 3:07:31 GMT -5
Now, i know that this was discussed a LOT in 2004, but iv bin thinking and iv realised that contrary to popular belief, the geno breaker beats the fury hands down. the breaker weapons capability, speed, and pure power could compleeetly destroy the pathetic excuses for zoids that nc/0 produced (exept shadow fox) and the geno breaker looks WAY cooler AND the geno breakers pilot was BOSS
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Post by Illandrasen on Dec 15, 2012 11:07:33 GMT -5
I think a lot of this topic depends on the skill of the pilot. As you will remember from CC and CC:GF it is not always the superior zoid that won. And I kind of disagree on the hands down destruction of the Berserk Fury in this fight. For the sake of my fingers from now on Berserk fury = BF and Geno breaker =GB
This is what I'm assuming in these scenarios based on what i've seen in the animes, mangas, and the model kits themselves: BF is much much more maneuverable in close range battles, Raven is a superior pilot and is partnered with the organoid Shadow, and the BF in NC/0 is an Ultimate X aka permanently fused organoid.
Scenario 1: wild zoid vs wild zoid I'm going to have to give this fight to the BF. My reasoning is based on a few things. The BF, in its base armor, is capable of firing 3 charged particle beams at once. This would render the GB shield useless. The BF also has a shield generator so even if the GB got the first shot it would only be a matter of time before the BF won.
Scenario 2: Random Experienced pilot in the BF and Raven in the GB If the GB were to hands down beat a BF it would be in this scenario. Raven's ability as a zoid pilot as well as being partnered with Shadow would allow him to out maneuver the BF and take victory.
Scenario 3: Raven in his BF:Shadow Edge from the manga vs Raven in his GB it goes without say that the BF:SE would win seeing as Raven himself upgraded to this zoid from the GB.
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ctnburn
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This Zoid can only be piloted by pilots with superier piloting ability.
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Post by ctnburn on Dec 15, 2012 23:32:07 GMT -5
the bf's fight scenes are reasonably impressive yes, and its weapons and the way it uses them also looks reasonably impressive. but if you look at the facts the geno breaker would be legendary in a 1v1 fight. to prove it, lets look at what it took to take both zoids out. the bf: firstly it fought 3 sabre tigers, 2 dark horns and a gojulus, 3 rev reptors, 3 genosaurers, had a part in fighting 1 raynos and gunsniper, 1 shadow fox and a liger zero. the it went down. now the gb: it took on 1 blade liger, 1 dibison, 1 command wolf, 50 sabre tigers, 10 shield ligers, 100 cannon tortoises, and 50 gojulus'. then it did it all again, except this time instead of a command wolf, it was a lightning saix. it won. and then it took the blade liger 1v1. the match was interfered with and the gb was hit with the death stingers cpc. it still didn't go down(its orginoid was destroyed however) it then went on to take another direct hit from the deathstinger. what happened was unclear but the geno breaker survived. then it proceeded to take 3 partial hits from 3 different cpc's and then destroyed the 3 zoids that fired them. then it was hit by missiles fired from the stronger death saurer and was attempted to be absorbed by the death saurer. it wasnt. and then finnaly it managed to make a large hole in death saurers shield ( something over 1500 zoids failed to do ) before running out of power. it was never defeated, the only matches it didnt win in, either, the match was interupted or it ran out of power. in a fight, the gb could easily out match the bf.
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Post by Illandrasen on Dec 16, 2012 0:52:51 GMT -5
It's hard to compare zoids from CC and NC/0. In NC/0 all the zoids seem weaker than those in CC. I mean if you line up a bunch of Saber tigers and gojulas' I feel like the Berserk fury would be able to CPC them just as easily as the GB. I wish we had some radar power charts to compare. Lemme try and imagine some and collect some data.
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Post by Illandrasen on Dec 16, 2012 0:59:42 GMT -5
But a really important factor is the pilot. In the manga Raven has his new BF and fights against a Geno Breaker. The GB fired its CPC and hit Raven directly yet the BF was unscathed. Raven the retaliates and one shots the GB. This is the only recorded fight between a GB and a BF that I know of. I'll try to get some scans of the manga.
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Post by Illandrasen on Dec 16, 2012 2:15:01 GMT -5
Made this based on wiki info. I normalized the results to 1 so that A clear difference could be seen. Looks like on stats alone they are fairly on par in most areas. The BF sacrifices some size but makes it up in maneuverability. The ranged fire power of the GB, excluding CPC, greatly exceeds the BF. The BF does have 3 CPC's however with integrated pulse beam cannons on its buster claws. Reading into to lore a little more supposedly the buster claws don't have to be used as additional CPC's but can be used to increase the output of the main CPC of the BF. The BF was made by the Guylos empire to succeed the GB in response to the Helic Republic's amassing of new Liger Zeros. Attachments:
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Post by Chuckles on Dec 16, 2012 3:53:18 GMT -5
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Post by Illandrasen on Dec 16, 2012 10:52:44 GMT -5
Aye, ty Chuckles
Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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ctnburn
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This Zoid can only be piloted by pilots with superier piloting ability.
Posts: 9
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Post by ctnburn on Dec 16, 2012 16:54:21 GMT -5
As your said, the pilot is a really important factor, so taking into account that Raven was the one piloting the bf in that scene, and in cc/gf Raven was the one piloting the gb, the data is vastly incomplete. If there were somehow 2 Ravens, each piloting the gb and bf, and they battled, the winner would be the gb, purely because it fits Ravens style better. Therefore the ease at which Raven beat the gb in the manga doesn't prove the bf is better, it only means that Raven was a better pilot than that of the opposing zoid
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Post by Chuckles on Dec 16, 2012 17:53:35 GMT -5
If the Breaker were better, then Raven would have been piloting it instead of the Fury. The Breaker was too LAME for Raven.
^_^
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Post by Illandrasen on Dec 16, 2012 18:13:45 GMT -5
I still have to stick by the facts and the facts are that if we are talking solely about the CC universe the BF will take out the GB. I mean the BF was produced by the Guylos Empire to improve on the weaknesses of the GB. The main one being the lack of cover from behind. Even with Raven piloting the GB was susceptible to attacks from behind. The BF eliminated that weakness with its high mobility. The GB is a powerful zoid, don't get me wrong. It just has weaknesses that the BF would capitalize on.
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Post by KAndrw on Dec 16, 2012 19:29:31 GMT -5
Made this based on wiki info. I normalized the results to 1 so that A clear difference could be seen. I don't have a horse in this race, but I have to point out that normalising data is not always the best way to compare things - you wind up with infomation about each zoid relative to itself, not relative to each other. In Zoids Full Metal Crash, I find the GB slightly more effective than the BF - while the GB lacks a shield, it has claws on strings and the head spike charge attack, which ultimately mean more flexible combat both at short and medium range.
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Post by Illandrasen on Dec 16, 2012 20:29:15 GMT -5
I think you misunderstand what I mean by normalizing the data. Basically what I did was more than just simple normalization. This is what I did:
I took the data in each section and normalized to the highest value in the section. Therefore if you take the speed of the GB for instance, 345 km/h, and the BF, 340 km/h. Now the GB is slightly faster at top hovering speed so I normalize that to 1 by dividing by 345. I then divide 340 by 345 to get its normalized value of .985 for the BF. The math is sound and so is the method used to normalize the data.
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ctnburn
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This Zoid can only be piloted by pilots with superier piloting ability.
Posts: 9
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Post by ctnburn on Dec 17, 2012 18:02:59 GMT -5
The statistics of the zoids don't always count for much, I mean if we went by statistics alone (which is pretty much exactly what we're doing now) it would mean that a dibison could single handedly take out a death saurer, which, going by the anime, is beyond impossible. Comparing the stats of the bf and gb is like putting an angry Lion and Cheetah in one room, and making them fought. Raw power onto excessive manouverability. All the GB would have to do is corner the BF and lay waste to it with it's CPC.
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ctnburn
Private
This Zoid can only be piloted by pilots with superier piloting ability.
Posts: 9
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Post by ctnburn on Dec 17, 2012 18:19:47 GMT -5
And also, the BF doesn't have 3 CPC's. Those two buster claws don't FIRE cpc's. They're used as 2 extra particle generators in addition to the genorator in its mouth. That presents a weakness. If it's buster claws were to come off (like they did in the final episode of nc/0) then it's cpc would be almost useless. In the final episode of nc/0, shortly after the liger zero had clawed of the BF's buster claws, it took on almost direct hit from the BF's cpc and it wasn't even scratched. Before it's busters claws were removed, nothing could put a scratch on it, but once they were taken off, it was defeated in less than 5 mins. The BF's weakness is far worse than the GB. And it's shield could also only be produced by its buster claws. But, even if it had it's buster claws on, the GB's shield was shown to withstand much more than the BF's. Although the BF's shield was never broken (don't remember seeing it being broken, but correct me if i'm wrong), at any one point, the most its shield held off at one go was just a weasel unit from 1 Gun sniper who's ammo was half depleted. Whereas the Gb's shield was shown to withstand a complete barrage from the following: 1 dibison, 1 command wolf, 50 sabre tigers, 10 shield ligers, 100 cannon tortoises, and 50 gojulus'. The GB has the BF completely out matched.
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