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ZPOC
Feb 13, 2014 7:28:05 GMT -5
Post by Ernestotaku on Feb 13, 2014 7:28:05 GMT -5
Is this the game where you tested static zoids in a room?
If that is so, you have advanced a lot.
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ZPOC
Feb 14, 2014 13:37:34 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Feb 14, 2014 13:37:34 GMT -5
Is this the game where you tested static zoids in a room? If that is so, you have advanced a lot. Don't know what you have in mind. It's an own project setup for this proof of concept. I only used the player actor from my game project as a drop in for the pilot to have something to test with.
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ZPOC
Feb 18, 2014 11:38:34 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Feb 18, 2014 11:38:34 GMT -5
Firstly, sorry for the late reply myself! Comments down the line:
The model looks great; nice and solid with very accurate proportions. I'm assuming if you wanted to add some belly detail you could do so with texture or bump maps, but that's a real nitpick!
The cockpit shots are very nice! For once we can get a real feel for the field of vision in the Liger. I always love how the camera pov messes with a sense of scale, though. It seems like the controls could take up more of the screen so they would be larger and easier to use in game. Perhaps they could extend toward the player when active? like the steering wheel on an extendable column car? I like the hand movements, as well. Really good start on this!
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ZPOC
Feb 19, 2014 12:37:05 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Feb 19, 2014 12:37:05 GMT -5
Most parts of the model are covered with a place holder texture including the belly side. But you can always give your opinion on what you would like to see on the belly side. I understood it from the images that the underside is a black metal material with the gun barrels attached to it. But the reference images do not contain much to work with there.
Concerning the cockpit what you mean exactly with the controls taking up more of the screens? You mean to grow the joystick in size? The hands are roughly real life size and the camera field of view is 90 degrees. Most people are used to ego shooters using 75 degrees field of view or even 60 or less (metro last light is affected by this problem). These give though heavy tunnel vision and motion sickness especially if moving/turning fast so I opted for 90 degrees as this is easier to take for players. But I could grow the joystick in size, that would be simple to do.
I did my first tests yesterday with the full body motion feedback (FBMF) code. Still experimenting around but I got some interesting values. While walking along the player is already affected horizontally by up to 0.8 gforce and vertically up to 2.5 gforce (1.5g + 1g earth acceleration). You stride quite the distance in that liger there. Pilots certainly need to be well trained to support the gforces going to happen in full combat movement. I'll show the test once my setup fully works.
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ZPOC
Feb 19, 2014 13:54:38 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Feb 19, 2014 13:54:38 GMT -5
I would think so (g-forces)... much like a fighter pilot. In anime, however, you can wear a swimsuit as effectively as a flight suit! I think the pressurization + light body armor combo makes a lot of sense in a ground vehicle that can maneuver like a giant cat. On the screens, I was just thinking that, if they held actual working controls for the player to reference, it would be handy to have them larger on the screen. But I know that can be difficult with POV code because computers focus very differently than human eyes in a real environment.
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ShadoWolfozo
Lance Corporal
Pilot of Liger Zero Midnight Strike
Posts: 87
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ZPOC
Feb 23, 2014 10:18:43 GMT -5
Post by ShadoWolfozo on Feb 23, 2014 10:18:43 GMT -5
That looks incredible so far !!! and... just adding my 2 cents, but regarding Maethius' zoids tabletop game method, I do remember Mech Warrior, an older PC game, took into account limbs, weapons and pieces being shot off. And if a leg was shot off a 2-legged mech, you'd remain stationary until you either destroyed the enemy mech magically, or were destroyed. While the loss of a leg wouldn't unbalance it.... there's still an example
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ZPOC
Feb 24, 2014 11:20:17 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Feb 24, 2014 11:20:17 GMT -5
That's true, but in later versions of Mechwarrior snapping the leg off would cause the 'Mech to keep over. Nice thing about a Zoid, some of them have 8 legs! You would have to work out an engine that determined, 'okay, that' enough... you're down.' I figure a Guysack could still crawl about with 2 legs on one side and 1 leg on the other. I believe our rule was that each leg lost reduced speed and maneuverability by a percentage for multi-leg Zoids (Guysack with 8 legs = 100%, 7 legs = 88%, 6 legs = 76%, 5 legs = 64% and so on), but if all legs were removed from one side of any Zoid it was immobilized. Mind you, it could still fight, depending on its weapons or characteristics, but it was on the ground.
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ZPOC
Feb 25, 2014 18:45:18 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Feb 25, 2014 18:45:18 GMT -5
Late reply is late. This time I'm guilty of late reply ^.=.^ Concerning the focusing this is usually not that much of a problem. The flat projection plane compared to the round on in our eyes is a bigger problem. Somehow the joystick though feels smaller in the game view than in Blender. I guess I'll crank up the size a bit later. I could put the pilot closer to the controls but I'm not sure about that. I guess any position there would be not too comfortable in the long run. After all it's a combat vehicle and not a holiday attraction The shot-off-my-legs part is interesting. I guess it could be cranked up a notch. The pure logic behind this damage system would be not that difficult. Making all the animations match with it though is a different topic altogether. But that would be not that important since the scope of the POC is more experimenting with ideas than having a fully playable end-product. That would be anyways a problem since without a lincense you are not allowed to use a franchise just-like-that. Many people do not know that making a game with something that's not ours is grounds for legal C&D easily. A POC on the other hand is a different story. Nobody can say something against experimenting around . Now to come back to the legs a shield liger with one missing leg could that even move? Our neighbors cat lost a leg in a car accident so she is down to 3 legs. She's still walking around and lives a happy live but agility certainly went down to a fraction of what she could do with 4 legs. I guess a shield liger with a lost leg would be more or less immobile since the leg joints are not that flexible to begin with. Anyways, the delay in replying had been also due to me messing around more with the POC. After all I wanted to test an idea of mine first before other ideas. This one had been using my Full Body Motion Feedback system trying to couple it with physical simulation. I tried attaching the pilot model physically to the cockpit and using a physical gforce simulation to affect the head (and therefore the camera). Bullet physics is not too stable with that case and simulating neck muscles with springs didn't work out that well too. It's not that much the physical simulation that had been the problem but more that I needed quite stiff springs to get anywhere and then things start to oscillate. Not what you want for your view to move like. Tested then another idea as fallback animating the acceleration effect in Blender. That gives nice artistic control and still gives a similar effect. In a nutshell the movement of the zoid translates to gforce/acceleration effects affecting your view. I think it makes it more realistic inside the bounds of the possible without hacking Bullet around too deeply. In the video I moved around a bit showing the effect. It's mostly titling left and right as your head is affected by taking turns or trodding along. As mentioned before I calculated the gforces to act around 1g left-right ways and 1.5g up-down ways. I don't know how these gforces would feel like but I think it's working out. What you think? Too much? Too little? About right? Also messed around with the shield model and using a pure emissive material. I have no clue how the shield looks like or how large it is. I have the feeling it's too small and too close to the snout. What you think?. Also messed around with paint jobs. The texture can be individually colorized for different body parts. So theoretically one could fully custom paint his zoid if he wants to. It's not detailed as with a model kit but around 8-10 body parts can be painted right now. There is though no limit to how many texture one can use with the model. But if there are too many paintable parts people might get lost (like Spore... in the end everybody used only the editor as the game had been crap). And yep... I self-destroyed a zoid in the end... rofl... I just couldn't resist
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ZPOC
Feb 25, 2014 22:20:28 GMT -5
Post by brightcat13527 on Feb 25, 2014 22:20:28 GMT -5
Firstly, I've gotta say that even though this is a side project, it looks really awesome! Can't wait to see more of it. Now, on the topic of the shield, it encompasses the entire zoid. I found a decent reference from the anime. youtu.be/jSf53y81inM?t=1m57s It's on a Blade Liger, but it's pretty much the same thing. And I liked the game Spore.... x3 But you're right, it left a lot to bee desired, but that's an entirely different topic! Back on track.
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ZPOC
Feb 26, 2014 11:50:32 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Feb 26, 2014 11:50:32 GMT -5
Lookin' good! My thoughts on the shield... I always saw the Shield Liger version as a half dome based on a sphere that was large enough to encompass the whole Zoid. However, I have seen it depicted in two ways that work together: A forward facing mode that covers the Zoid's front and can be used while it moves around the field, and a dome that completely covers the Zoid while it is defensively crouched but immobile. I'm not certain if this could be a difference between the Shield Liger and the Blade Liger, which is an upgrade to the SL. The physics look okay. I think it might be helpful to have a "run" button for really aggressive, more animal like maneuvers. Think of it this way, in normal mode you can steer like a nimble tank, even able to stop almost on a dime, turn in place, and charge forward up to 50% max speed in a hurry. The cats really do have to feel more cat-like than tank like. BUT... use the "shift" or "mouse 3" or some other key and you are in melee maneuvering mode for a short duration, allowing rapid, snap-around movements, crouches, jumps, etc. You could even have it so that if you snapped around too aggressively that the pilot's head smacks the glass.
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ZPOC
Feb 26, 2014 12:54:12 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Feb 26, 2014 12:54:12 GMT -5
@rightcat13527: Nice find. Imagine though how it would feel like with that cockpit view if somebody viciously stomped your canopy Maethius: In the games I've seen so far the shield had been always facing forward. This leaves a weak point in the defense. That said I've seen also one game where the half-sphere dome has been used. The shield had been deployed if crouching. Both ways make sense. Maybe something like front facing shield requires less energy and thus can shrug off more hits before collapsing while the half-sphere one covers your butt but breaks down quicker. I could imagine a two mode shield by having it like this: forward+shield = front side shield and moving, shield button while standing still = dome shield. Not certain about the shield texture though. The one from the animé looks kinda bland and uninteresting. I've to toy with some ideas there once upon time. Concerning the movement I didn't quite get your idea. What you have in mind when you say "nimble tank"? For me a tank is heavy and clunky and nimble the opposite so how do the two fit together. About running and gunning I need to make those animations first. Never go around doing it as I did not have a final rig yet. I'm still not certain if I should make the individual digits on the feet moveable or leave the feet fully static.
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ZPOC
Mar 1, 2014 13:47:50 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Mar 1, 2014 13:47:50 GMT -5
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ZPOC
Mar 9, 2014 12:54:23 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Mar 9, 2014 12:54:23 GMT -5
I know these guys . They create some crazy stuff there. They certain dig over the lawn there. Anyways, I had not that much time on my side in the last couple of days. Nevertheless some more experimenting going on. First video, then the explanation (switch to HD and full-screen to see things better): Here in short what the video contains. - Testing a particle only explosion. All explosions use the same emitter just with a control adjusting the strength (stronger missiles = stronger BOOM). Tried to base it off some footage from cgexplosion.com but as a coder I'm not strong with this kind of artsy stuff. After all you have the job profile of "particle artists" in the industries for some reason.
- Testing dynamic displays. No HUD display but real monitors. Not sure yet how you are supposed to aim precisely but maybe that's why in some anime stills I've come across they wear a helmet?
- Middle screen switching views. I put some placeholders in there. The NDS game Zoids Saga had quite a large number of displays you could cycle through. I've got an idea for a radar view I want to test. Right now the placeholders are supposed to mimick an overworld map, radar and some detailed status screen. Any ideas what other kind of views would be interesting?
- Weapon side display based on render-target renderables with some example info / ammo tracking. Snatched some placeholder images from Zoids Saga here too. After all it's just for experimenting around. Not the best UI but it works for the time being.
- Status side display based on render-target renderables with dynamic info. Same as above just with your zoid status instead of weapon status.
- Shield handling modified. Has now energy consumption and recharging times. Side status display shows shield status. You can not switch it on and off and while running it depletes energy. I've seen different versions. One version blocks all shots but lasts only for X amount of seconds. That's how it works right now. The second version is with the shield running forever but loosing energy on hits disabling if running out of energy. Which version do you find more interesting? I think the second one allows for shield-spamming but on the other hand could make weaker units last longer and thus being more versatile not just cannon fodder.
As always comments are welcome.
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ZPOC
Mar 11, 2014 14:57:46 GMT -5
Post by Maethius on Mar 11, 2014 14:57:46 GMT -5
Wow, that is looking GREAT! Can definitely see the need for some crosshairs or a target-locking reticle; I can see some great stuff with a realistic HUD, too. One way to aim precisely would be to actually use your console to attempt to lock your weapons onto a specific part of the target, once your weapon is locked you are free to run around and let the weapon do the targeting itself. However, to balance this, each weapon would have a different field of fire (some are mounted on turrets, some are fixed forward, etc.) Also, if you drive a Zoid that happens to have a gunner, they can actually make attacks of opportunity; assign them the part you want shot and they will hit the trigger if it is exposed for any length of time.
I like the scaling of the control console better, and the ability to move your head is excellent.
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ZPOC
Mar 12, 2014 16:10:09 GMT -5
Post by lordofdragons on Mar 12, 2014 16:10:09 GMT -5
Wow, that is looking GREAT! Can definitely see the need for some crosshairs or a target-locking reticle; I can see some great stuff with a realistic HUD, too. One way to aim precisely would be to actually use your console to attempt to lock your weapons onto a specific part of the target, once your weapon is locked you are free to run around and let the weapon do the targeting itself. However, to balance this, each weapon would have a different field of fire (some are mounted on turrets, some are fixed forward, etc.) Also, if you drive a Zoid that happens to have a gunner, they can actually make attacks of opportunity; assign them the part you want shot and they will hit the trigger if it is exposed for any length of time. Actually I have something along this line in mind which goes further than that. Ever played UT3? They had the Leviathan there which multiple players could mount. The first player had been the main one doing the controls while all upcoming players just had been randomly placed in control of on of the weapons on it. I think a max of 4 players could mount it but I'm not sure. Long time ago I had that game in my fingers. I still prefer UT99 since all this vehicle stuff became ridiculous quickly. But the idea of having multiple players controling parts of the same zoid would be intriguing. Imagine something like Kill-The-Brachiosaur (or how this zoid is called) where one team has to get that zoid from A to B while the second team has to nuke it with players able to choose either to mount the guns in the brach or weasel around in separate zoids. What you mean with "scaling of the control console"?
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