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Post by Yurei Avalon on Feb 11, 2006 22:06:53 GMT -5
right, my bad. I keep forgetting what brachio fuzes with.
And fuzors was also a joint tomy/hasbro thing keep in mind.
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riftfighter
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Post by riftfighter on Feb 12, 2006 0:04:51 GMT -5
Im glad because now this clears my confusion of why zoids arent in stores anymore.
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Post by AbsumZero on Feb 12, 2006 1:25:39 GMT -5
before Rick jumps in on this kid and eats him, hate to break it to you, but tomy helped co design some of those "tard" designs to my knowledge. So it's not hasbro ruining their line. Now, do I like most of their hasbro exclusivw designs? Nope, not really although ray saurer is cool. But yeah guys, let's get this off of another pointless hasbro bashing/when will zoids come back thread. Whether or not Tomy was involved in their design, it's only fair to admit that they were the death-knell for the already waivering line. Sales were pretty strong before the release of Blox (probably because they were rejected by older Zoids purists). For example, anyone remember how incredibly difficult it was to find the Toys R Us exclusive Shadow Fox on shelves? Or the brisk sell-out of the FAO Schwarz Deathsaurer? I never even saw a Genobreaker on the shelves in So. Cal. Apart from the Gravity Zoids/Blox, the only shelfwarmers here were the massively unpopular Gustav, the over-produced Liger 0s and the Ultrasaurus and Giga G, both of which were released with a 60 and-up price-tag. I'm going to play the devil's advocate and say that, while I'm pessimistic enough to realize we won't get another domestic release for some time, I wouldn't have been totally shocked if Hasbro were to test-market Zoids Genesis in the US much like they did with the early NAR. The animated series is getting a domestic release, Tomy has merged with Takara (Hasbro's major partner in Asia), Zoids Genesis features models which are more pre-constructed and are predominantly of the small/medium sizes that did so well, the new King Kong remake did pretty well in theaters (giant gorillas fighting dinosaurs... what a total Zoids rip-off!!! j/k), and there are no blox in the main-like, with the exemption of Deathraser/Parablade recolor. And before anyone bites my head off, I'm not suggesting that we will be getting a new domestic release. Only that it probably wouldn't be as huge a flop/ isn't as completely implausible as some might suggest.
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Post by 尹 眞悟 on Feb 12, 2006 3:04:58 GMT -5
right, my bad. I keep forgetting what brachio fuzes with. And fuzors was also a joint tomy/hasbro thing keep in mind. That's true but the zoids you didn't list as already being released by Tomy were also part of Fuzors :p
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 12, 2006 6:15:39 GMT -5
Just to clarify: I didn't expect any new Zoids from Hasbro, too. But the Toy Fair is *the* most important event in the toy business, so in my opinion it's worth to be a topic here. And if there was anything Zoids-related going on in the western world then it would be shown at the Toy Fair (just like the clearance sale of the NAR's like Seismosaurus, Jet Falcon etc. in the UK - those Zoids were all offered to the traders at the German Toy Fair 2005 - where I also was told that a british distributor just bought most of their stock; only a few weeks after that the Zoids popped up in the UK).
Anyway, if it's true that Hasbro still has the licence for Zoids then it's not impossible (though very unlikely at the moment) that they would do something with their licence. For now they are paying for *not* releasing Zoids - why would they be doing this if they would not see any potential for Zoids at all? I also think that they are observing what's going on in Japan and are waiting if Tomy comes up with something that Hasbro thinks could be successful in the USA, too, or even be thinking of doing something Zoids-related oneself. Again, if something like that would be going on, then visiting the Toy Fair and speaking to the people there could give interesting hints, as vague as they might be.
And finaly I'm more concerned when I'm reading that there are more and more bargain sales of NAR's. I mean, Zoids are being sold for absurd low prices for two years now(!), and obviously they still have warehouses full of more yet unsold Zoids. The recent flood of NAR's could either be a sign that now they want to make space for new Zoids - *very* unlikely as there are no sign of Zoids at the Toy Fair - or they produced so much more Zoids then people wanted to buy, so the release of Zoids in the USA must have been a commercial disaster for Hasbro. In that case the reportings of even more Zoids sales is a very sad thing, and I don't understand why so many people are so enthusiastic about that... For me it's nothing else than a tragedy, as the NAR seems to have been an economical flop...
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Post by Deadborder on Feb 12, 2006 7:51:17 GMT -5
Well said there, Tom.
Just wanted to add a couple more thigns... First up, don't expect any company apart from Hasbro to pick up any future US Zoid releases. Both Tomy and Takara had long-term reltionships with Hasbro, and I see it as very unlikely that they'd want to go to all the lenghts of building up a partnership with another company - epsecially given that Tomy has inherited Takara's Transformers co-development partnership with Hasbro.
Tomy's Zoids partnership with Hasbro goes back to the 90s, when Kenner - which was then a part of Hasbro - were the US Disrtributor for TechnoZoids. Despite the failue of the TZ line (Cancelled in a single year with large numbers of unreleased items) clearly somone thought that it was worth keeping the partnership alive.
The NAR is still the single longest-lasted and most successful North American Zoids release ever, and is probably the most successful non-Japanese release ever. It'd be a mistake to call it a "faliure". It was a success initially but, like many a toy line, it had its time and then ended. That it lasted some 3 years before the "hiatus" is quite reamerkable.
And lets not foget this much - it was only the success of the Zoids line in the US that prompted Tomy to continue the NJR after Gojulas Giga.
Tomy certainly aren't going to market Zoids in the US themselves. As has breen pointed out many a time, they don't have the Market presence or the built in ditributor network to try. And if they did try, it'd probably bomb on the scale of the NER - if not worse. For any gripe you may have had aobut the NAR, it was a lot worse in England.
I'm not ruling out a return of Zoids to the US (Or other Western markets). I'm just suggesting that its going to be a while at least, especially if Hasbro are still clearing stock. As has been suggested, Hasbro could be waiting to see what takes off in Japan. That's probably not likely to be Genesis, as the line has been cancelled somewhat prematurely, which is hardly indicitive of a success.
And point two? When you mention Zoids developed or codeveloped by Hasbro, you miss one. Energy Liger was partilly, if not wholly, designed by Hasbro. So consider that before you next begin to whine aobut any perceived quiaity issues.
Rick R.
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Post by Yurei Avalon on Feb 12, 2006 8:49:34 GMT -5
before Rick jumps in on this kid and eats him, hate to break it to you, but tomy helped co design some of those "tard" designs to my knowledge. So it's not hasbro ruining their line. Now, do I like most of their hasbro exclusivw designs? Nope, not really although ray saurer is cool. But yeah guys, let's get this off of another pointless hasbro bashing/when will zoids come back thread. Whether or not Tomy was involved in their design, it's only fair to admit that they were the death-knell for the already waivering line. Sales were pretty strong before the release of Blox (probably because they were rejected by older Zoids purists). For example, anyone remember how incredibly difficult it was to find the Toys R Us exclusive Shadow Fox on shelves? Or the brisk sell-out of the FAO Schwarz Deathsaurer? I never even saw a Genobreaker on the shelves in So. Cal. Apart from the Gravity Zoids/Blox, the only shelfwarmers here were the massively unpopular Gustav, the over-produced Liger 0s and the Ultrasaurus and Giga G, both of which were released with a 60 and-up price-tag. Dude.... there was NO death saurer. That's a rumor, it was never released And don't forget mate, tomy came out with blox first in japan before they hit shelves in the US via hasbro. So if you wanna blame blox as the reason for killing off the line, you can blame tomy since they came out with them. And you wanna know why I never saw a shadowfox, genobreaker, red blade liger here? Because we never got them, plain and simple. The distribution was so *Watch your language!* up I never saw a lot of the older large zoids or some of the TRU exclusives in my area of Southern New Hampshire. I think the only TRU exclusive my TRU has was the yellow saix at one point. And Rick, where do you get off saying Genesis was cacelled? You keep saying that and people keep showing how good the ratings were doing. Not spectacular, but what's to be expected of the series. Just because the model line's stopped at Gildragon and co doesn't mean it was cancelled, we haven't seen any new zoids in the show so why would they make more kits for the genesis line if there's nothing else showing up in the anime? Now the fact that aside from a few LTDs we haven't heard anything does bother me somewhat, but they're probably waiting a bit while they sort some stuff out.
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Post by AbsumZero on Feb 12, 2006 9:43:31 GMT -5
The 2nd planned release never came about but just before Christmas 2002 (I think that was the year, wasn't it?) it was given a small release as an FAO Schwarz exclusive. Unless they listed it online and in their printed catalog and then went back and declared it "sold-out" soon-after just to deceive people, which I doubt.
We got Shadow Fox here in San Diego, but all I ever found of that wave was the occasional Zabat. I saw 1 red Blade Liger, but I'm pretty sure the Genobreakers never made it onto the shelves here either. Still, I'd have never even known the Shadow Foxes made it out here if not for the rest of the wave.
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Post by Yurei Avalon on Feb 12, 2006 10:02:27 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure i've heard that it never actually came out and was a bust... Someone mentioned it on here once.
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Post by Phenotype on Feb 12, 2006 10:24:58 GMT -5
AbsumZero - I know someone who ordered to F.A.O. Schwartz Deathsaurer and when the package arrived in the mail it was actually a Tomy NJR Deathsaurer. F.A.O. Schwartz didn't negotiate Deathsaurer as an exclusive, they just ordered a few from Japan. Also, you said Genesis is being given a domestic release but I'd like to point out that this info is still nothing more than a rumor. I imagine that if Genesis is given a domestic release it will probably be straight to DVD without being shown on any TV network.
Tom - I know you weren't expecting any Zoids news from Toyfair and I apologize if my reply seemed a bit harsh. I do think this topic is newsworthy, I'm just sick and tired of everyone asking why Hasbro hasn't brought Zoids back. I'd like to touch on something that Tom mentioned as I think a lot of people here probably aren't really thinkng this through. It would be near impossible for Hasbro to bring back Zoids now for one simple reason. As Tom mentioned NAR Zoids have been on clearance for TWO years now and a lot of people who aren't as into Zoids as we are don't know these are clearance prices. Even a lot of people who are into Zoids don't understand and just think that Hasbro lowered the prices. What does this all mean? It means that it would be virtually impossible for Hasbro to bring back Zoids and sell them at their original prices after consumers have been able to buy them on clearance prices for two years. They'd have to dramatically lower the prices from what they used to be and I think it's fair to say that Hasbro isn't going to do that. The only thing they can really do at this stage is try to wait long enough that most people have forgotten Zoids and then try to build a new fan base. Honestly, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. -Pheno
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Post by Al Sweet on Feb 12, 2006 10:27:32 GMT -5
The 2nd planned release never came about but just before Christmas 2002 (I think that was the year, wasn't it?) it was given a small release as an FAO Schwarz exclusive. Unless they listed it online and in their printed catalog and then went back and declared it "sold-out" soon-after just to deceive people, which I doubt. We got Shadow Fox here in San Diego, but all I ever found of that wave was the occasional Zabat. I saw 1 red Blade Liger, but I'm pretty sure the Genobreakers never made it onto the shelves here either. Still, I'd have never even known the Shadow Foxes made it out here if not for the rest of the wave. Where do you people get this info from?? There was no FAO exclusive. That Death Saurer was Tomy. Yes, FAO had it but no exclusive and had only a few(one in store IIRC). I worked there at that time and it was the only tomy zoid there. The rest was all hasbro. As for here in NY we got all the NAR zoids, from Shadow fox to Ultra Saurer, I know cause I got all of them. Al Sweet
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difflock
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Post by difflock on Feb 12, 2006 17:50:04 GMT -5
Cat amongst pidgeons time, probably from my ignorance..but who has the moulds for the Zoids? How much do they want and where's the nearest injection moulding plant? Would the originators be willing to sign off the rights with the moulds? Somehow I don't think it's as simple as firing up a factory to produce them. (Can't you tell I'm not in Marketing/Production??)
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 12, 2006 18:09:32 GMT -5
I'm just sick and tired of everyone asking why Hasbro hasn't brought Zoids back. I understand very well what you mean (I often feel the same...). People sometimes just don't get the dimension of what happened between the end of 2003 and the beginning of 2005 - first the line was not only halted, it was abruptly aborted in the middle of the Fuzors-release (otherwise they would have been at least showing repetitions of the first half of the Fuzors-Anime in order to support the sales). And then they sold off their latest models to excess stock traders... A company wouldn't do that if they wanted to continue the line. The "we gave Zoids a rest and will continue a year later" was nothing more than an empty phrase they made up before they further analized the situation. I should have chosen another title for the topic, though, as it does suggest a higher probability of new Zoids than it would have been appropriate... And also Rick is right by saying that it's good Hasbro brought Zoids to the USA for such a long period, though I believe that if Hasbro had lower expectations regarding the sales figures they might still be releasing Zoids. But maybe I'm just angry at Hasbro that they didn't release the Holotech Liger Zero, the purple Dimetrodon, Houndsoldier and Canon Ceasar - I wanted these models, dangit!
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Post by Deadborder on Feb 12, 2006 19:56:25 GMT -5
I agree with you there, Tom. I too wanted the purple Dimetro, the Battle Rex, Houndsoldier and Cannon Ceasar. Alas... (And yes, I am so damned envious of your having Battle Rex!)
With regards to the Genesis Model line, its pretty clear that it has been discontinued rather early. It doesn't make much sense to end the line well before the anime ends its run. With the cnecellation of the Redler, and the abrupt re-numbering of a number of items, the line has a distinct "suddenly cancelled" feeling
Interestingly enough, there's at least one Bio-Zoid that neber reached production or even a protype. Tomy had planned for a "Bio-Dipoldicus" (Or some other bio-Sarupod) but it never eventuated. I bleive the idea was that it would have been a bio-Zoid equivlent to Seismosaur.
At least one online toy magazine (No I don't recall which) reported poor sales of the new Zoids in the Genesis line, and the Bio-Zoids in particular. OTOH., the reissued Zoids were said to be doing well. And bear in mind that the Anime's ratings aree not indicitive of the model line's performance - and its the model line that counts more towards its overall success then the anime. The Anime is there to seel the models, remember.
Rick R.
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Post by Yurei Avalon on Feb 12, 2006 20:13:38 GMT -5
but if the anime doesn't do well the line won't either.
redler wasn't cancelled, it was moved ot be an obscure limited for whatever reason.
For this bio zoid, where are the pics of it? Where was it reported? I've never heard of this so-called zoid, where'd you hear about it? Is there not even concept art?
At anyr ate, according to a few american shops i;ve talked to bio zoids are popular int he states, they told me they can't keep 'em on the shelves. So despite their lack of popularity in Japan apparently, people like them over here. I personally like them aside form their perpetual "zomgexplodewhentouched" quality.
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