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Post by Hanyoutai on Mar 25, 2007 12:42:52 GMT -5
I'm tempted to start a trace project where I would trace some of the close up images of zoid models, line them and color them in on adobe. It'd be to distribute images of zoids who don't have many fan art pictures (Lidier, King Liger, Gilvader, Hound Soldier, etc) to fans to use on banners and sites and such.
I noticed that Zoids Life has some wonderful images that would work great for it, but I don't want to use them without permission. Does anybody know if they allow people to use their images (proper credit would be given) or would anybody submit some close up shots of some less common zoids (mainly OJR) for this project?
I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the fan art board. Sorry if it's in the wrong spot.
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Post by Tilly on Mar 25, 2007 14:50:16 GMT -5
Most sites don't, as a rule, though many will let you if you ask personally.
Anything that's on my Flickr account would be fine for that purpose, though, so long as you keep it under the Creative Commons license to match (attribution-noncommercial-share alike). Ask about things I've got on site. Most pics would be okay, but there's a few I don't want going elsewhere.
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Post by Hanyoutai on Mar 25, 2007 14:55:47 GMT -5
Pardon the silly question, but do you have a link to the photos you have? And a list of which ones in particular you wouldn't want to be used?
The problem with asking personally is that it seems Zoids Life is a purely japanese site. I can't read or speak japanese, and I've never been able to make heads or tails of babble fish translations. I was hoping someone here might now the photographer from Zoids Life and could ask for me (or someone that has decent japanese).
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Post by Tilly on Mar 25, 2007 15:10:45 GMT -5
My Flickr account's linked in my sig...the ones on my site you'd have to ask me specifically, since my images directory is a jumbled mess.
I'm not entirely sure what you'd want me to say (or how to say it)...you want to trace their images to make the equivalent of clip art/free materials out of?
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Post by Hanyoutai on Mar 25, 2007 15:24:56 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm wondering if I would be able to trace their images in Adobe Photoshop to make them into art style images. These images would be distributed on one or two zoids sites for people to use freely. The photographer would be fully credited. The only sites I plan to post them on are Zoid Revenge Saga and Phenotypes.
I'll get back to ya with a list of the photos that might come in handy (from the flickr site), my sister is booting me offline and I don't have time to check just this second.
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Post by Tilly on Mar 25, 2007 17:21:47 GMT -5
My Flickr ones are all free to use so long as whatever made with them remains free for others to use, you don't charge for it, and you mention me as taking the photo...that's what the license on 'em means.
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Post by Alteka on Mar 25, 2007 19:30:25 GMT -5
If a photo is modified enough from the original then it falls out of license. You'd be fine to trace and simply mention no more than the fact it was traced and not entirely original. Much of the choppy angled 5/6-tone imagery seen in magazine is simply a real photo with the cutout filter applied (to remove exact likeness and ignore having to credit the image or pay royalties). People cannot too picky with photos of mass produced kits anyhow, when they don't own the rights to actual design.
However, I think it may be a bit redundant to trace a Zoid for artwork if the photo, well.. exsists. Would be more interesting to see an original piece.
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Post by Hanyoutai on Mar 25, 2007 20:38:36 GMT -5
I'm aware that I could use the images anyway, but I'd prefer to have permission. If not, I'm sure I could find them elsewhere (I myself only have a single complete zoid irl, and thats a genius wolf. The rest met... rather unfortunate ends).
Tracing them would be to give a more artsy feel to them instead of them being painfully obvious as a model kit. While the tracing may be aparent, they would be much more convenient for banners and other various uses, be it for personalized color schemes of the particular zoid or just for profiles. I myself have always been rather stubborn about using model images for anything, since most of them don't look that good when showing off a zoid (Unless, of course, you're showing off the model kit). Art images will be much more flashy to some audiences.
When it comes to originality, that's not a problem. I'll have plenty of original works to post up along with these. I'm sure that will keep it a little more interesting. These are for mere convenience to the community, not to show of skill or bragging rights.
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Post by jlzimmer on Mar 25, 2007 21:18:13 GMT -5
Why don't you get the photographs from the people you want to give the images to? If this idea of yours has a market, even a free one, then look to the source for the source material.
You may not realize this but what you are wanting to do is basically be a middleman. Based on your project scope, if you could call it a scope, I guess you'd be some kind of monochromatic, er shadist, or colorist, or something.
Now, Alteka is an aspiring artist (a very talented one at that!), and I'm a published technical photographer on the side. So, we represent the root parts of what your trying to be a hybrid of. And what you say you're trying to do doesn't make a lot of sense to her, and it doesn't make a lot of sense with me.
She says if you start with a photograph then stick with the photograph. I'm going to tell you if your finished product is artwork then learn to be an artist.
Your trying to the two easy-halves of two professions without investing in the tools of those trades, or all of the talent required to do the work. Now that's not to say that your venture isn't noble, the under-appreciated Zoids will love you.
Right now, you've got a vision that you can't deliver on, so turn it into a goal and head towards it.
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Post by Hanyoutai on Mar 25, 2007 21:30:23 GMT -5
Actually, I do consider myself an artist. I don't need a reference to draw zoids (well real ones of course, because I cant remember the details myself) among other things. Tracing is a side project so that my current ones don't build up to much frustration for me. Its tedious doing lines, coloring, and shading in adobe. It takes me quite a few hours to pump out any original work, where as tracing will take much less time.
I've got two pictures already posted in the fan arts board today. One of a more detailed piece (the lines are pencil lines, I didn't go over them in adobe, but the coloring had much more effort), and the other a sketch (the molga). Vishus' avatar of the purple/green zoid is also one that I drew, Execution.
My point is, that I can photograph, but I've nothing to photograph. I can draw, I have and I have posted my works here. I'm not tracing to show off and call it artwork, per say, at least not original artwork. It is a for fun project, I just need the materials to do so.
In regards to going to the people that'd want it, I'm not doing this for anyone specific. The images would be posted here and on an RPG called ZRS. I don't believe anyone at the RPG has any models to photograph, at least many that I'd want (I'm pretty sure nobody has an OJR at the very least). Being that the images would be posted here, this could be considered a source. I didn't think that it'd be any harm to ask for a little help. If it seems like I'm trying to cheat, then please tell me and I'll just remove the thread.
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Post by jlzimmer on Mar 25, 2007 21:53:18 GMT -5
Well, consider this:
What if I took a picture of your work as it appeared on my monitor. I then scan the piece and throw some text over the top of it, and maybe invert the colors in an image editor. Then I stick it on my website for people to use on their webpages.
I'm a photographer, I took a photograph of a subject matter and superimposed some artistic flare onto the image. I'm not charging anyone to download it, or use it. I'm also not referencing you as the creator of the artwork within my photograph.
How would you feel about that when you saw your artwork as a piece in my jpeg on my website that calls it my work?
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Post by Hanyoutai on Mar 25, 2007 22:05:11 GMT -5
Which is exactly why I'm here, Zimmy. I came to ask if someone could contact Life Zoids for me, because I cannot. In other words, I'm here to ask permission. I'm not stealing anybodies art work, I asked for cooperation from the forum Members. I have no plans to steal any photos. Perhaps you missed that point.
If someone asked me permission to use my artwork, and permission were granted, I wouldn't mind it at all. If they had permission to edit the image, or use it as their own, that's fine by me. I even let people modify and upload the image without any reference at all to me creating it assuming that it was a request specifically for them. I'd also be giving full credit to the photographer when the images were uploaded.
I said it before, I'm not stealing anybodies photos. That's why I'm here to ask permission. I don't understand why you can't grasp this, and if you do, then I don't understand what the big deal is.
EDIT: Then again, I'm really stumped for this. I keep getting the impression I've done something wrong, but I have no idea what it is I've done. I havn't taken the images from Zoids Life, I'm waiting for permission. If they dont give me permission, I still won't use their images. Was it something I said that was taken the wrong way? Or am I misunderstanding what's being said to me? If anyone could drop me a PM spelling this out for me I'd greatly appreciate that over having the threat clogged up with this.
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DigitalMan
Sergeant
I can survive on caffeine alone!
Posts: 229
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Post by DigitalMan on Mar 26, 2007 0:44:15 GMT -5
Whoa there, hold up. I'm gonna have to disagree with jlzimmer here. I'm a photographer and an artist, who happens to have performed this very feat quite well, albeit in Adobe Illustrator rather than Photoshop. PShop would make the actual tracing a bit more difficult, but with the benefit of smooth shading rather than cel. I think it's a very good idea.
As for overall difficulty, maybe a three, tops - if I can do it, you certainly can. I can't draw Zoids well at all, hence why I prefer to 3D model them, but I've used tracing in minor projects where a model would take entirely too long. The Gojulas Giga is a good example. And that was a while back; using what I now know about light angling and focus, I could probably capture much more detail.
If you lack anything, it's just the photographs. I'm reluctant to offer my help due to lack of time, plus I have no OJR's, but someone here can likely supply you with high-resolution, sharply-focused photographs. Don't worry, most people aren't as protective of photographs of models.
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Post by Alteka on Mar 26, 2007 0:51:28 GMT -5
Zimmer, I'm a professional photographer, corporate graphic artist... and well, an artist. I make my living off all three.
Anyways, you're over exaggerating potential copyright abuse and source image stripping. What Han here wants to do is no big deal because it's both simple fanwork and a significant edit from source material. There is nothing to discuss beyond the fact he wants to be nice. I deal with copyright questioning nearly every week whether it comes through my work or the comic. Han's plan falls very squarely under 'a-ok'.
All that puzzles me is his insistence on being a friendly chap and requesting permission, when that process can be sidestepped... but, if he wants to do that it's perfectly fine.
Lets all cheer up, yo. It's peas and carrots, not corporate copyright.
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Post by Tilly on Mar 26, 2007 2:46:12 GMT -5
I always prefer to ask too. And speaking of the mentioned Zoids - Kingliger pics, feel free to trace any of those.
I'll see if I can find an e-mail for that site owner when I'm less braindead...
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