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Post by Maethius on Dec 7, 2021 15:48:47 GMT -5
Okay, I see more and more on this kit and now I REALLY want to own it. Do you know how long its been since I actually purchased a model kit just to own it? About 18 years! Anyone have any info on the kit in English? Thanks, folks!
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Post by Chuckles on Dec 7, 2021 17:32:55 GMT -5
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Post by Gojulas Omega on Dec 7, 2021 22:31:46 GMT -5
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Post by Fulano on Dec 8, 2021 0:15:09 GMT -5
Here's a cool review/overview of it: youtu.be/BO00qJH39yAYou can also buy it at usagundamstore for like $55 plus $10 shipping. I really like the changes SN made on the storm boosters and the re-zoning of the x-breakers to connect to the backpack boosters. I'm going to do exactly that with my Sturm Tyrann. I think Supernova's Berserk Fuhrer (the first one they released) was hideous, but I really think their tendency to spike things up and just add little details and scribing lines everywhere has actually really benefited the Sturm Fuhrer.
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Post by Leon35 on Dec 8, 2021 7:54:18 GMT -5
This kit is gorgeous.
Is it...is it ok to buy this? Like obviously it looks cool. And that price and quality seem unbeatable. But does that do Zoids a disservice?
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Post by Fulano on Dec 8, 2021 15:11:28 GMT -5
This kit is gorgeous. Is it...is it ok to buy this? Like obviously it looks cool. And that price and quality seem unbeatable. But does that do Zoids a disservice? There's certainly a case to be made that buying this Sturm Fuhrer bootleg does a disservice to the manufacturing of Zoids by Kotobukiya and puts their business in danger. Supernova has directly copied and seemingly "enhanced" the design of the HMM Berserk Fuhrer and Sturm Fuhrer/Tyrann by Kotobukiya, and is presumably encroaching on Koto and Tomy's business by providing a cheaper substitute to their official products. Their Zoids Amazing Murasume/Hayate/Mugen distributions were unique, upscaled versions of the ZA 1/100 figures, so they didn't really encroach on any official Zoids line, whereas Supernova's 1/60 Deathstinger, the 1/72 BF and now this 1/72 Sturm Tyrann certainly do. I'd argue that because Koto doesn't have the BF, Sturm unit, or Sturm Tyrann in production right now, and because I personally don't consider any other Zoid produced by Koto or Tomy to be a direct substitute for the HMM BF, Sturm Unit, and Sturm Tyrann, this Supernova kit is not directly competing with Koto right now and the money I'd be willing to spend on the Supernova Fuhrer is not money I'd otherwise spend on official Koto HMM Zoids if it didn't exist. But that's just me, I own 5 Zoids models currently, I'm not the person who buys any and all HMM Zoids model kits. If Koto wanted that money, they would have done a print of the HMM Fury and Sturm Tyrann and distributed it to American/Western stores, right? If the retail price of a HMM Sturm Tyrann is truly worth %50 more than this Supernova version, perhaps due to plastic quality or cost of manufacturing or whatever, then Koto shouldn't be worried, and I won't be either. Otherwise, does it really matter?
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Post by Snowflake on Dec 8, 2021 16:44:15 GMT -5
The irony is that thirdparties can and should be pushing the firstparties to produce better stuff and keep their supplies going. Either way this looks amazing and if I was into the HMMS I would waaant it. Do a kit for the tomy one. you won't. pfff
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Post by Maethius on Dec 9, 2021 15:11:04 GMT -5
Thanks for all the replies. I have built two Sturms in order to make my current custom; I have always loved the Sturm Tyrann and really like the HMM, but this model really does blow it away in many respects. I don't want to encourage IP theft, but I really admire the new details on this one.
Hard choices.
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Post by Leon35 on Dec 9, 2021 22:44:36 GMT -5
I think ive come to the decision that...I was never going to ever buy an HMM Fury. So it isn't money Kotobukiya is going to lose from me.
Im going to see if I can order this.
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Post by Darth Escargot on Dec 10, 2021 9:08:33 GMT -5
I think ive come to the decision that...I was never going to ever buy an HMM Fury. So it isn't money Kotobukiya is going to lose from me. I'm not trying to talk you in and out of anything and I'm not interested in moralizing or anything, but if you never get a Koto BF, you're honestly missing out on the best HMM model of all time. It really is that good. As for the ethics of buying ZA models, I'm a bit torn. The Zoids franchise isn't in the best place right now, so I'm really not sure we should be throwing money at companies that make what is essentially unlicensed knockoffs of Kotobukiya products. The one of these that really rubbed me the wrong way was the large-scale Death Stinger, especially because it came out at the exact same time as the reissued Koto kit, and so it was in direct competition with it. This BF is, well, I personally happen to think it's kind of weird looking and I much prefer the more angular look of the original design, but at least it's different enough to where it's not just a complete knockoff. I'm not going to fault anyone personally for buying this if they like it, and I think it's a bit silly to stand up for the IP rights of corporations that don't care about you on the internet. Plus I remember when hunting down weird bootlegs on eBay was as much part of the collecting game as anything else. But it is IP theft, and it does compete with a franchise that appears to be struggling at the moment as it is.
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Post by dchan on Dec 10, 2021 11:32:55 GMT -5
I'm not trying to talk you in and out of anything and I'm not interested in moralizing or anything, but if you never get a Koto BF, you're honestly missing out on the best HMM model of all time. It really is that good. As for the ethics of buying ZA models, I'm a bit torn. The Zoids franchise isn't in the best place right now, so I'm really not sure we should be throwing money at companies that make what is essentially unlicensed knockoffs of Kotobukiya products. The one of these that really rubbed me the wrong way was the large-scale Death Stinger, especially because it came out at the exact same time as the reissued Koto kit, and so it was in direct competition with it. This BF is, well, I personally happen to think it's kind of weird looking and I much prefer the more angular look of the original design, but at least it's different enough to where it's not just a complete knockoff. I'm not going to fault anyone personally for buying this if they like it, and I think it's a bit silly to stand up for the IP rights of corporations that don't care about you on the internet. Plus I remember when hunting down weird bootlegs on eBay was as much part of the collecting game as anything else. But it is IP theft, and it does compete with a franchise that appears to be struggling at the moment as it is. +1 on the Koto BF being superb! And I agree on almost everything else. But I'd say that while the corporations certainly don't care about you, the actual creative teams behind the products we love are not faceless, probably quite small, and possibly do care about Zoids personally. I work as a professional sculptor for Hasbro and others, and there's maybe a couple dozen of us freelancers behind all the modeling for the collector-oriented action figure lines. It's already a field where creator-acknowledgment is rarely the norm (i.e. I have no idea who designed the original Tomy Saber Tiger, or who 3D modeled the Koto BF, etc) and where most likely all the contracts are work for hire (i.e. I doubt anyone gets royalties on individual sales or even reissues, except maybe Mercy Usagi). So for me personally, I wouldn't be thrilled to see my work get bootlegged, though obviously I can't speak for Kotobukiya or anyone else.
All that said, I also won't judge anyone for buying this if they like it! I think it looks stunning and Maethius I'd love to see you just build a kit and enjoy it, without the weeks/months of planning ahead for a custom marathon.
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Post by Leon35 on Dec 10, 2021 12:30:40 GMT -5
All of the above points are very valid and I dont have much else to add. I will say that we don't have any real data that supports the idea that the Zoids IP is struggling.
Otherwise I think I wholly agree. I did make the decision to buy this kit...BUT...God...Now Im looking at the real HMM Raven Raptor and the HMM Liger Zero X. The fact that they are sub $50 USD before shipping is so awesome. I might choose to buy these and support Koto that way. It is very cool that they can sell directly to US customers now.
That does mean I will need to sell more of my Zoids to make room...hmm...My backlog is still so huge. I need to decide carefully.
Also, Dchan your insight especially is appreciated. Its not something I have ever thought about, but there are a team of individuals who are responsible for all of these designs and we might never know their names.
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Post by Maethius on Dec 13, 2021 15:19:28 GMT -5
Some exceptional points to be made. On one hand, I want to support Koto on their fine work (let's face it, you can't get a bootleg if there isn't an original first!). However, I have purchased TWO Sturms to build my current custom, and the knock-off has features that the original lacks. Fortunately sort of... our cat just ended up at the vet, making my decision for me at this time.
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Post by Leon35 on Dec 13, 2021 23:01:01 GMT -5
I honestly cant tell if you are buying the ZA or buying nothing...but I do hope you buy (or don't buy) whatever makes you happy, and that your cat is doing well
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Post by Maethius on Dec 14, 2021 16:38:19 GMT -5
Thank you. Kitty's diabetes is out of remission, so he's back on insulin. We are waiting for lab results on a growth that may or may not be something.
Sorry to waylay my own thread....
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