Why I hate scalpers

[ultimateultrasaurus]

Okay bear with me.. You can call me negative Nancy or whiny William but it blows.
Limited, rare or exclusive (Zoids) items have been around for ages. A lot of companies do it and I've always wondered why. Some people say it's good for business because those kind of items peak interest in a brand.

But does it actually do any good? Way back when there were also limited Zoids, exclusive prizes etc. Things you could win, get as mail-away etc. But even some of those (after all these years) are still available (more or less for a lot of them) and yes not always cheap but still available and sometimes affordable as well.
Okay there are things like BF clear HMM or Descat (that wasn't even limited) or the elusive Gravity Rex that had insane high prices. Here I was hoping that Descat would get the Zoids Graphics treatment.

Anyway, the thing is, how do exclusive items help fans? Yes there will be a few people who can say: "I have one of *so many produced*"

But they often had to bleed for it..because of scalpers. "Rule is supply and demand" blah blah..

So why would a company make exclusives when all those items do is feed greedy filthy scalpers?

Take for instance the most recent offerings from TT; ZW Coro 100 limiteds.
They give away (as prize for the scratch cards) 100 of an item.
They make some special color, give them away (so making no money on those,save for selling some more Coro magazines.)

They only produce 100 of that item and here come the vulture-like scalpers who hover over that stuff like over a dead or dying animal. Most people who are actually a fan of a property will want them but not be able to.

Because of the limited run, scalpers will buy them or rig the contest and ask insane prices (more on prices later). For instance Hot Toys make a lot of Exclusives which get bought by *bleep*holes who actually hire people to stand in line. And so get not one but 10 or even worse 30+ of said item...
One person might have a lot of money and buy it. And the next scalper will ask more. And so on.

What does making those items do for a company? Doesn't bring in money cause they give them away (in the case of TakaraTomy). Maybe peaks interest in their products. But other than that the losers are the true fans who just want one.

So it only feeds the scalpers to keep doing that.
If the limited run was say 500 or a 1000 it would be somewhat easier to get one.

Even better would be just make a smaller run than a normal release and sell instead of give them away.
That way more fans can buy them, the company makes money and scalpers won't be able to screw people. Some companies allready stopped making exclusives (or rather say they stopped, but still make stuff so limited, fans can't get them but scalpers will. I'm looking at you, Lego!

Take the Coro Death Rex, there should be 100 going around. Well I know of about 6-8. Yes not everyone will post their stuff online so more people might have it but not show it. I know of about 5-6 that were sold (and yes for insane prices) and 2 that were given away to some small kids in that ZW KoB contest (who didn't even look that excited to get them by the way, okay maybe they were shy or whatever. Some people might have won them but no way at all to check how many there were actually made.
Anyway sometimes one pops up online and the prices went for around 100000 yen.
That is a lot of money for one item...(and in this case only for some parts,not even a complete Zoid)

Meanwhile TT is churning out Coro 100 like it's nothing as they keep announcing more.

That Clear Wild Liger? I know of about 4. One was sold for 200000 yen???!!! One not sure about price, one for someone who won it and actually kept it and the most recent one which was put up online.
It was a bid auction and was ending today. The price was allready up to 245000 or something (which I suspect wasn't done in a fair way whatsoever).
The seller then cancelled the auction (as it is now not sold, but wait for it.. Put up again but now with a buy it now price of 650000 yen??!!?!?! That's around 5500 euros!!??

Scalpers will probably never go away, but it would be so much better for companies to not make stuff that limited, as it does nothing at all for the fans at all...

Sure a few people can say they have one (if they want to bleed for it by paying a scalper) and some will win one and be happy with it. (If you live in Japan that is...)

But TakaraTomy must really hate their fans as they they have proven time and time again that they don't care. Anyone outside of Japan is not interesting (even though there is a big enough fanbase, and as someone said before not as much as Transformers for instance but also with those items, they have proven they don't care about anyone outside of Japan. Not service wise either. For you can't get replacement parts for Zoids unless you live in Japan. Yes I know business model, etc etc blahblah. But that doesn't make it any less annoying...

But why give away stuff for free that ends up in greedy scalper claws instead of making more of an item and actually sell them to make profit and not help scalpers?
Yeah beats me...

So no I don't like TakaraTomy very much because of that. Because they will not listen, they will not change and they will not care either..

By the way this was that insane auction:
page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p692499611

[Hanyoutai]

Even if there was something to discuss in this thread, we pretty much get shut down unless we agree with you because of the added "blah blah blah" on all counter points, essentially closing off other avenues for discussion. The closing rant about TT hating fans is getting grievously exhausting. Some of these expectations are completely unrealistic for the company. For example, paying almost as much as an entire model kit to ship Little Timmy in Nevada a replacement Scorpear tail when you know another company will be available to handle those complaints locally in time.

The limiteds are a fair criticism, but it's so hard to focus on that discussion when the thread is closed with paragraphs of ranting about how TT doesn't love us. It completely ignores that they ARE expanding, are making constant efforts, and have successfully ported Wild over to other countries. Yes, that starts with more local Asian countries, but it's a good start nonetheless.

Hasbro is already discussing Wild, but there also seems to be a disconnect in understanding how complicated it may be to make a franchise international, especially when you expect it to have a global presence with full kit releases, on multiple continents, in less than a year. Let's not forget that Zoids Wild started last June. Is a single year really soon enough to make such blatant claims about TT not caring about fans outside of Japan? Does the presence of Wild kits in the Philippines and in Korea not count for anything? At all? I apologize for rambling so long on this issue, but since it is permiating multiple threads, it's hard to ignore.

I do agree on the Coro limiteds, I don't like these extremely limited kits either. 100 made however doesn't mean 100 sold. Many are probably in the hands of fans who have no intention of selling. Less than 10 of each (closer to 5) have been sold by scalpers. People may be gun shy about posting because of rants exactly like this. Why post when you have to listen to a lecture for it? Granted, it doesn't make it any better that they're so inaccessible, but just wanted to put it out there because of the notes of only knowing about a few. So far as we understand, there are actually more than 100 floating around due to... reasons. But they're not any less scalped.

There's a whole marketing strategy in regards to limited edition kits (which are indeed to sell more CoroCoro magazines), but I can summarize that explanation with "Yeah, it sucks." I don't agree with it either, but I want to reiterate again just how unnecessary it is to rail on the company when they've taken extreme measures to try and make Zoids as successful as they can at this time. Which yes, includes trying to bring it to fans in other countries.

[ultimateultrasaurus]

Valid points there Han, I do realize when reading it again I do come across as harsh etc. even though I am not the only one being "negative" on this forum (mind you I am not pointing fingers whatsoever).

But I guess that was mostly due to a long week, killer at work and added sleep deprevation.. And I do really hate scalpers but also know TT is trying to do as good as they can (I for one have been supporting the ZW line all the way, even though there are a lot of things most of the people here, including myself could be better). I am just glad that we even got new motorized kits. And that HMM got started up again as I thought it would. And as added bonus even get ZW HMM.

Doesn't take away that any company that makes limiteds is not helping the fans but the scalpers, but that is mostly the fault of the scalpers.. (Even though more than just 100 would certainly help in less scalping..)

Also as I've been a fan since the start I have always supported them. (I mean there were, aside from the OER, no other actual releases over here, so I was used to getting stuff from anywhere else than locally.)

I didn't expect or demand Western releases as I wasn't counting on it to begin with. The main reason why I got all my ZW when they came out in Japan.

But yeah like you said the limiteds suck.
My post is now kind of obsolete, so after you read this I will delete it.

Sorry for stirring up sh!t (again) but I tend to be passionate about my longest hobby (and not always viewed as nice to read or too long etc.) and not everyone has to share that opinion of course.

Also it was and is not my intention at all to close off all other discussion because of my post. That is why it was just that, my middle of the night, tired way of venting. Maybe not the correct time or place and or way to say it.
But no harm intended (in this or any other post that will or has been experienced as irritating..)

[RPZ41]

Some of those limited ones, like the Clear Liger for example, could make their way outside of Japan through local events or store exclusives. Hasbro loves their holotech and clear crap. They like to make SDCC exclusives (which later go on their online shop Hasbro Pulse). It's a little to early to say TT hate their fans, if they've barely been able to reach everyone. Right now we gotta wait a bit more and see what the future holds for the franchise. TT is trying, and CoroCoro 100's are just marketing tools to draw more attention where it needs to be, the franchise.

[cloudymecha]

Love some good discussion. Lots to unpack here.

First off, TT does not hate the fans but they're not out to please us either. Zoids Wild, first and foremost, is here to create a new generation of Zoids fans not pander to existing fans. They do however give us small nods. Catalga is clearly a redesigned Molga. The Battle Card Hunter game released armors in Blade Liger and Command Wolf's likeness (and is adding Blade Liger to the game soon).

Regarding Japan's ambivalence to supporting the franchise overseas. It's complicated. As others have said it takes time to ramp up a franchise. TT can't even keep up with demand IN JAPAN! They need to get a handle on their domestic market and slowly expand outwards as they're doing. It would spell death for the franchise (again) if they brought the anime over to the US or Europe, created a ton of hype, and then had little to no kits to sell here. We're probably also not feeling the love because Hasbro is handling all distribution to the west and they are stilling getting their ducks in a row.  If you have beef with Western distribution you have to look to Hasbro not TT.

Also while Japan has always been more "Japan First" about their products. I don't think this is the case here. TT has stated they are bringing the franchise overseas, it just takes time. Be lucky we aren't dealing with P-Bandai! Bandai just FINALLY solved the p-bandai in America problem and gunpla fans have been complaining (with good reason) for years!

As for Limiteds...

You have to acknowledge (as every toy company does) that there's an element of collecting in all toy franchises. Limiteds give the collectors something to be interested in and in part opens up an additional market (now not only kids but teens/ adults will buy). Hence why we got limiteds in the past as convention, contest, store exclusives, etc..

As in the case of P-Bandai- limited edition kits also give companies the ability to comfortably create small print runs of less popular/ obscure kits. If you limit a kit to 1000 pieces and then distribute it to stores, fans might have a hard time finding it but sell it directly (online order or con exclusive) and you can justify that 1000 piece print run easily.

Regarding CoroCoro limiteds... Everyone is frustrated. If you use Google Translate on the responses to a lot of the CoroCoro Limited announcements on Twitter you can see Japanese fans aren't too happy either. I'm not sure why TT is sticking only to CoroCoro for their limited edition kits. Perhaps its a contract issue? More store, convention, magazine exclusives would be great but it is what it is.

Also the reason you're not seeing many come up at auction is because they are being appreciated exactly how TT intended! CoroCoro is a kids magazine and kids are winning most of them. The kids don't care that Purple Rex is worth $1000+ they're opening and enjoying them! You'll probably see a fair amount go up on auction sites in a few years once some of the fans have gotten older and lost interest in the kits. In regards to kids not smiling in pictures, its a cultural thing. The Japanese aren't nearly as expressive as we are. One of the reasons, I was told, Meijin Kawaguchi (of gunpla fame) loves coming to US conventions is because Americans are so friendly and expressive. We jump up and down, and hoop and holler when we win something, we talk to strangers standing next to us. It's not like that in Japan.

[Maethius]

There are a few important points of note:

1) ALL company decisions are monetary decisions. Just because we don't attend the board meetings and share info with the finance and marketing departments doesn't mean the company isn't profiting from their decisions. Also, even if they do not make money directly from sales (giveaways), they always make up for it with advertising and inter-corporate contracts.

2) TT, and other Japan-based companies are focused on their domestic market; international distribution is a calculated risk usually leveraged by other companies within THEIR domestic markets.

3) No company actually hates the source of their income. Period.

4) Driving a fanbase into a frenzy DOES enhance their bottom line. 100 models are released, 10,000 fans want it. 1,000 of those fans by duplicates of mainstream release kits and paint them to look like the limited kits.... the company just sold 1,000 more kits that cost them 50% less to produce (limited run kits require special runs of platics, pigments, and packaging, and are therefore more expensive to produce).

Now, is it frustrating for collectors? Absolutely! But does it make sense to the company? Sure.

What I do miss was when limited were just that... a rare occurrence that was something really cool we could all admire, and they were rarely released, too. It was not the "limited of the month" club.

[Darth Escargot]

When it comes to limited releases, honestly, I don't have the explanation because I'm not a business person, but they're basically advertising, and you can be 100% sure that these corporations wouldn't be doing them unless they knew it's good for business. I really think it's that simple - it works, or they wouldn't do it.

The general tendency for Japanese toy and model kit manufacturers to ignore Western markets I find a bit harder to understand. Bandai have only now, maybe a year or two ago, started to include English translations in their Gunpla instructions, for example, and there's still no way at all that I know of for anyone outside of Japan to get replacement parts for their kits even though the franchise is clearly global and GBWC has regional chapters all over the world, including Europe. I'd be really curious to see some sales comparisons of domestic vs international for certain franchises, given the population size of Japan.

[ultimateultrasaurus]

Thanks for joining the discussion and for sharing your views and explanations.