Unanswered questions

[chris514]

I haven't watched this anime in about 10 years so my memory on it is a little fuzzy, but...

From what I gather the zoids are mechanical organisms with a living zoid core.

Organoids are small zoid-like creatures with the ability to temporarily fuse with a zoid's core. This can boost it's abilities or even repair a dead or damaged core amung other effects.

But presumably if cores can die then that means new cores have to come from somewhere otherwise inevitably you wouldn't have any zoids left. So where do humans get zoid cores from to build new zoids?

There were some zoids that were wild too I think in Chaotic Century as well as in the Zoids Legacy game, but I don't recall any in New Century. Am I to infer that perhaps zoids may not even be built by humans, but rather be more like domesticated wild animals?

Organoids seem to be associated with ancient zoidians and only seem to show up when they do. I would presume this must mean ancient soldiers probably created them and with the ancient zoidians almost all gone new organoids simply can't be created any more. They also created zoid eve and subsequently zoid cores too, but with the prevalence of zoids and rarity of organoids I have only two hypotheses here. Either new zoid cores are still being produced somehow, or zoid cores being sheltered inside of zoids bodies and being able to be revived by organoids has made them more resistant to being wiped out over time as compared to organoids.

There is also the organoid system attached to the cores of the Liger Zero and Berserk Fury. What are they? Perhaps organoids that became permanently fused to their cores? Or artificial constructs made from organoids by humans?

[Hanyoutai]

If the Zoid Eve dies, it doesn't just kill the Zoids, but the Ancient Zoidians as well. I would assume by this logic, that it came first. Unfortunately outside of the anime/manga (which is vague at best) the Eve barely gets any explanatory mentions.

The anime OS seems to be kind of a bastardization of what Organoid Systems were supposed to be. IIRC they were functionally like the sleeper systems in the anime, allowing Zoids to act remotely. Several low-level Zoids also had these. On the other hand, the "Ultimate X" as it is is treated in the show (a Zoid capable of learning), in the original battle stories were wild Zoids. Which were, indeed, wild creatures whose cores were harvested for the machines we know today. The anime didn't go into detail about this kind of world building stuff so I just tend to equate Ultimate X = Wild Zoids. Wild Zoids were a force to be reckoned with for their natural strength and ability to act with or without pilot intervention.

The anime gives little implication about the Anime!OS. I see it as a vague homage to the original. People like to say it's Shadow/Zeke but there's no supporting evidence of that. The images used for both of these systems are exactly the same. It appears, at least to me, to be a generic system and likely how they felt to embody the concept of the Organoid System. Tbh all we have is conjecture. It depends purely on how many similarities you want to draw between the anime and Battle Story, which are mostly intended to be subtle nods at best.

The story universes clear up more about cores than the animes ever do. The animes never touch on this, other than that some cores might have partial interference from humans? Maybe? But a great read, if you have the time, would be the Zoids Bible translations from the General Board. This goes over a lot of the 'what whens and hows' of how things on Zi came into existence.

[Falcarius]

Feb 20, 2016 0:02:06 GMT -5 chris514 said:

From what I gather the zoids are mechanical organisms with a living zoid core.

Organoids are small zoid-like creatures with the ability to temporarily fuse with a zoid's core. This can boost it's abilities or even repair a dead or damaged core amung other effects.

But presumably if cores can die then that means new cores have to come from somewhere otherwise inevitably you wouldn't have any zoids left. So where do humans get zoid cores from to build new zoids?

There were some zoids that were wild too I think in Chaotic Century as well as in the Zoids Legacy game, but I don't recall any in New Century. Am I to infer that perhaps zoids may not even be built by humans, but rather be more like domesticated wild animals?

Organoids seem to be associated with ancient zoidians and only seem to show up when they do. I would presume this must mean ancient soldiers probably created them and with the ancient zoidians almost all gone new organoids simply can't be created any more. They also created zoid eve and subsequently zoid cores too, but with the prevalence of zoids and rarity of organoids I have only two hypotheses here. Either new zoid cores are still being produced somehow, or zoid cores being sheltered inside of zoids bodies and being able to be revived by organoids has made them more resistant to being wiped out over time as compared to organoids.

Basically, yes. None of the anime series go into much detail, but the cores are definitely alive and sentient in all of them. In the Battle Story, and maybe some of the anime, these cores are taken from "Wild Zoids", creatures that have evolved and bred naturally without human intervention. I don't remember proper Wild Zoids (野生ゾイド) appearing or even being mentioned in any of the anime (or Saga series), but there are occasional mentions of "wild Zoids" (野良ゾイド) that should have been translated as Stray/Feral Zoids (military Zoids that have lost their pilots and now act on their own). Some people will tell you that Organoids are Wild Zoids (based mainly on appearance), but supporting materials confirm that the Organoids were small Zoids created by the Ancient Zoidians. Then again, it's possible that all Zoid Cores in Chaotic Century were created by Ancient Zoidians - see below...

Feb 20, 2016 2:22:47 GMT -5 Hanyoutai said:

If the Zoid Eve dies, it doesn't just kill the Zoids, but the Ancient Zoidians as well. I would assume by this logic, that it came first. Unfortunately outside of the anime/manga (which is vague at best) the Eve barely gets any explanatory mentions.

The anime OS seems to be kind of a bastardization of what Organoid Systems were supposed to be. IIRC they were functionally like the sleeper systems in the anime, allowing Zoids to act remotely. Several low-level Zoids also had these. On the other hand, the "Ultimate X" as it is is treated in the show (a Zoid capable of learning), in the original battle stories were wild Zoids. Which were, indeed, wild creatures whose cores were harvested for the machines we know today. The anime didn't go into detail about this kind of world building stuff so I just tend to equate Ultimate X = Wild Zoids. Wild Zoids were a force to be reckoned with for their natural strength and ability to act with or without pilot intervention.

Well... sort of.

Unlike the Organoid System in New Century, which is just a self-improving AI, the OS in the Battle Story is a system that "makes Zoid Cores abnormally active", increasing the Zoid's abilities but making it more vicious and difficult to control. Limited versions of the OS were used in Zoids like Rev Rapter and Gun Sniper, while stronger versions were used for the Blade Liger and Geno Saurer/Breaker. The ultimate example would be the Death Stinger, which is heavily implied to have killed its own pilot and started spawning baby Death Stingers due to overclocked survival instincts. An "Interface" (shaped like Shadow) was later discovered and used to create slightly weaker but more controllable Death Stingers. The OS was also used to rapidly increase the numbers of rare Zoid Cores (including Wardick and Death Saurer), presumably by making existing cores reproduce faster and/or in greater numbers.

As far as I can remember, the term "Ultimate X" was never used in the Battle Story. Instead, the Liger Zero and Berserk Fuhrer were "directly based on" Wild Zoids, making them more responsive and manoeuvrable, and were considered superior to Organoid System Zoids like the Blade Liger and Death Stinger. However, all military Zoids (until Blox) used cores from Wild Zoids, and they were all capable of acting without pilot control (which is why Stray Zoids exist). Presumably the Zero and Fuhrer were just more physically similar to their Wild Zoid bases than most Zoids, or something.

As for the Zoid Eve... time to infodump all confirmed information about it!

- "The Ancient Zoidians used the Zoid Eve to produce many Zoid Cores, and by using those Zoids, we were able to create a world of limitless prosperity and potential." (Fiona)
- "It was believed that when the Zoid Eve ceased, all Zoids on the planet would cease as well. But we could not bring ourselves to completely extinguish the Zoid Eve's power. This is why Zoids continue to exist on the planet Zi." (Fiona)
- "On the other hand, by resurrecting the Zoid Eve and releasing its power, Zoids could multiply infinitely and flourish on this world once again." (Dark Kaiser)
- "Like an Organoid, the Zoid Eve has the ability to heal the wounds of damaged Zoids, but it also has the power to quickly resurrect damaged Zoid Cores completely." (Hiltz)
- "This energy... it's so big, it could only be coming from one possible source! The Zoid Eve!" (Doctor D)
- "You have to remember that the Zoid Eve is the fundamental source of energy for all Zoids." (Doctor D)*
- "Destroying the Zoid Eve will bring an end to all the Zoids, and the entire race of Ancient Zoidians will be annihilated!" (Hiltz)**

...and that's pretty much it, besides the constant reminders that reviving it will power up all Zoids (particularly the Death Saurer) and destroying it will kill all Zoids. Even the Anime Encyclopedia doesn't add anything useful (it also doesn't say anything about that ring around the Death Saurer in the final episode, unfortunately). As for the manga version, practically nothing is known other than it being the oldest and most powerful Zoid, the "mother" of all other Zoids (including first-generation Zoids like Hourai, Zeke and Fiona). There's not even any hints as to what it looks like, although it's probably not an immobile statue like the anime, since Hourai "hasn't met her in 300 years" and doesn't know where she is now.


(* The Japanese version of this sentence is more along the lines of "this must be the fundamental energy source for Zoids", not "Zoid Eve is the fundamental energy source and you should know that already".)

(** I'm not entirely sure destroying the Zoid Eve would directly kill the Ancient Zoidians, and this quote is fairly vague. There's an earlier line by the Dark Kaiser - "The Ancient Zoidians would have perished without their Zoids, and you know nothing's changed" - which suggests that they just wouldn't know how to survive without Zoid assistance. If all Zoid Cores were produced by Zoidians through the Zoid Eve (Fiona's quote isn't detailed enough to say for certain), they must have done fine without Zoids to begin with, so maybe it's equivalent to saying "humans wouldn't know how to survive without the internet". But I'm getting too far into speculation here...)


Wow, this post got humongous

[chris514]

From what I know of zoid eve and the death saurer it sounds almost like some kind of robotic apocalypse spurred on by the death saurer that was narrowly averted and had so few survivors that what we are left with is just bits and pieces almost resembling mythology.

So I guess it stands to reason that the humans of planet Zi are likely the devolved descendants of the ancient zoidians after however long it took to repopulate, and that Chaotic Century is likely relatively shortly after the humans really started making use of zoids again sometime within a few hundred years prior though still with minimal knowledge of them.

My guess is either zoid eve was created by the ancient zoidians and then used to create the Zoids or alternatively the zoid eve came into existence before either of them and created them both. In either case some kind of tension arose between the Zoids and the zoidians resulting in the conflict that lead up to the death saurer's rampage. This likely stemmed from the Zoids having greatly increased intelligence and ability before zoid eve was powered down.

Zoid eve seems to be presented almost like some kind of deity and having the form of a human/zoidian woman I think the implication is that she is a maternal figure for all life on planet Zi. But zoid eve having a human/zoidian form may indicate zoidians as having had a hand in the creation of the Zoids too. Which would place the Zoids in a position of subservience to the zoidians which may be what led to the death saurer's rampage.

Powering down zoid eve without completely shutting her down brought the Zoids back into subservience by reducing their intelligence to that of animals.

I think when it was referring to zoid eve's destruction bringing an end to all zoids and wiping out what is left of the ancient zoidians it may have only been speaking figuratively about the zoidians. We already know powering down zoid eve had no effect on the zoidians, apart from saving them from total extinction. It is likely their devolution to humans with the absence of their advanced technology and culture that got rid of them. If zoid eve was created by the zoidians then she would be their crowning and longest lasting achievement thus given that the zoidian race had already fallen the destruction of zoid eve would be more than just their destruction, but would serve to erase all evidence of them having ever even existed.

Alternatively if zoid eve came first and created both then it could have been literal. I think since Chaotic Century came first in the Zoids plot line Tomy likely kept it this vague in order to give us just enough back story to speculate on while leaving it open in case they wanted to do some kind of prequel series about it. Or perhaps simply to retain zoid bee's mysterious deity like status.

[chris514]

From what I know of zoid eve and the death saurer it sounds almost like some kind of robotic apocalypse spurred on by the death saurer that was narrowly averted and had so few survivors that what we are left with is just bits and pieces almost resembling mythology.

So I guess it stands to reason that the humans of planet Zi are likely the devolved descendants of the ancient zoidians after however long it took to repopulate, and that Chaotic Century is likely relatively shortly after the humans really started making use of zoids again sometime within a few hundred years prior though still with minimal knowledge of them.

My guess is either zoid eve was created by the ancient zoidians and then used to create the Zoids or alternatively the zoid eve came into existence before either of them and created them both. In either case some kind of tension arose between the Zoids and the zoidians resulting in the conflict that lead up to the death saurer's rampage. This likely stemmed from the Zoids having greatly increased intelligence and ability before zoid eve was powered down.

Zoid eve seems to be presented almost like some kind of deity and having the form of a human/zoidian woman I think the implication is that she is a maternal figure for all life on planet Zi. But zoid eve having a human/zoidian form may indicate zoidians as having had a hand in the creation of the Zoids too. Which would place the Zoids in a position of subservience to the zoidians which may be what led to the death saurer's rampage.

Powering down zoid eve without completely shutting her down brought the Zoids back into subservience by reducing their intelligence to that of animals.

I think when it was referring to zoid eve's destruction bringing an end to all zoids and wiping out what is left of the ancient zoidians it may have only been speaking figuratively about the zoidians. We already know powering down zoid eve had no effect on the zoidians, apart from saving them from total extinction. It is likely their devolution to humans with the absence of their advanced technology and culture that got rid of them. If zoid eve was created by the zoidians then she would be their crowning and longest lasting achievement thus given that the zoidian race had already fallen the destruction of zoid eve would be more than just their destruction, but would serve to erase all evidence of them having ever even existed.

Alternatively if zoid eve came first and created both then it could have been literal. I think since Chaotic Century came first in the Zoids plot line Tomy likely kept it this vague in order to give us just enough back story to speculate on while leaving it open in case they wanted to do some kind of prequel series about it. Or perhaps simply to retain zoid bee's mysterious deity like status.

[Hanyoutai]

Sorry if the Ultimate X thing was unclear; yeah, it was never mentioned in the battlestory that I know of. I was just drawing a comparison between it and what the respective Zoids were in the story. Thanks for the extra info, though!

Re: Zoid Eve, that's all conjecture. I mean, it's not bad, but I guess I don't really see that side of it. I don't think powering down Eve had any effect on the Zoids's intelligence (they are, after all, first and foremost animals.) I also don't think powering it down was ever done to dumb their critters.

If we're theorizing about it destroying Zoidians, I also gotta say I'm still leaning more towards their destruction, than it being figurative. "The entire race will be annihilated" is a pretty bold statement for "We'll lose our wiiifiiiii." I'm also assuming they aren't horribly reliant on technology anymore. Hiltz and Rease are ... well, homeless. They rely on their Organoid's companionship but I'm not sure it's the same as needing technology to such an extent that they'll die without it. Especially when Zoids in the anime serve only as combat machines. The biggest problem would be the war fallout of every nation suddenly being virtually undefended, but technology itself, so far as I recall, is no longer mentioned to be in direct connection with Eve. Technology would not fall with its destruction. Only the manga (which as mentioned, barely talks about Eve) implies that cores/Zoids are more than just animals. The anime never shares the implication of the cores being needed for their society, or used for non-animal devices. (I'm assuming we're mostly speculating about the anime universe here.)

The Bible Translations also include some nice info about the human/Zoidian interaction~

I personally prefer the concept of the Eve being a deity to both species. They all use power from it. While totally unbased on fact (given there's like ... no facts-) my personal stories for Zoidian stuff tend to be written in that the extinction event occurred to intentionally destroy the Zoidian population. Mainly because they were creating things like the Death Saurer, and the Eve only had a finite amount of energy, so had to act out in some way. It turned their weapon against them in the name of self preservation. Again, not fact, and doesn't coincide with the anime stuff (Deathy was just ... outofcontrol, if I recall) but still.

Falcarius might be more help here but, fwiw Deathy was created by humans in the story I think? Was the Death Saurer extinction even a thing? Outside of ... well, what it was after it was created. I know Prozen's ended rather catastrophically but I mean way back?

[chris514]

Yea I was kind of reading into the symbolism a bit. Zoid eve's form as a humanoid female has some interesting possible implications. I would say the most likely being that she was probably made by the zoidians and then used to create the Zoids.

It is possible that the ancient zoidians if they created zoid eve may have also used her power to enhance themselves in some way thus making them also dependant on her. Possibly some kind of implants or something making themselves sort of human zoid hybrids. Could have something to do with their markings.

Their technology being lost would more be the result of their infrastructure being lost. They would have lost a lot of their knowledge and technology from having their cities destroyed by the death saurer. Simply because there would have been a lot of their scholars probably killed in the conflict and their manufacturing facilities leveled. There is no telling how far back it set them. Though given how little seems to be known about them either a lot of time elapsed there or so little survived that the stories come off as mere legends and fables to the current inhabitants of Zi.

The intelligence of the Zoids does seem to be a big factor in their power. Liger Zero for example seems to be one of only two zoids in New Century that even shows signs of sentience. Presumably due to the augmentation of the organoid system which seems to be presumably derived from organoids in some way and likely similarly boosts their power though possibly to a lesser extent than an actual organoid would. Personally I think the organoid system might represent an attempt at cloning an organoid, at least partially, and permanently fusing it with the core. In either case the Zoids seem to generally take on a greater intelligence whenever they receive a boost in power which they often seen to use to aid their pilot in manoeuvring and reacting to obstacles or enemy attacks. Something most zoids don't seem to do causing most pilots to rely entirely on their own skill.

[Falcarius]

Feb 20, 2016 21:41:26 GMT -5 Hanyoutai said:

I personally prefer the concept of the Eve being a deity to both species. They all use power from it. While totally unbased on fact (given there's like ... no facts-) my personal stories for Zoidian stuff tend to be written in that the extinction event occurred to intentionally destroy the Zoidian population. Mainly because they were creating things like the Death Saurer, and the Eve only had a finite amount of energy, so had to act out in some way. It turned their weapon against them in the name of self preservation. Again, not fact, and doesn't coincide with the anime stuff (Deathy was just ... outofcontrol, if I recall) but still.

Falcarius might be more help here but, fwiw Deathy was created by humans in the story I think? Was the Death Saurer extinction even a thing? Outside of ... well, what it was after it was created. I know Prozen's ended rather catastrophically but I mean way back?

Yeah, Battle Story Deathy was just another military Zoid (albeit rather powerful), designed and created by the Zenebas Empire (mostly Zoidians, but could have had some Earthling involvement) in ZAC 2042-ish. The most it did in the 80s stuff was force the Republic army to abandon their capital city and most of their territory for a couple of years, until they came up with the Madthunder. In the mid to late 2040s, there would have been dozens if not hundreds of Deathsaurers in action, but the 2056 meteor disaster killed off any that weren't destroyed in the war. It did have a bit of a "legendary" reputation in the Official Fan Books, but even when Prozen managed to revive/enhance them with the Organoid System, fifty of them were defeated in three days (though the Republic lost all their Madthunders as well). ...And then Prozen blew himself up and wiped out an entire city and most of both armies, although technically it was a chain reaction of dozens of Deathy cores collapsing, not just the Bloody Death Saurer's.

(In my fanfic ideas, the Ancient Zoidians in the anime timeline built the Zoid Eve (maybe multiple Zoid Eves?) as a wireless power source, and their "supernatural" abilities were engineered through biological experiments. The ones in the Battle Story timeline never got around to building the Zoid Eve or Death Saurer - perhaps because a different super-Zoid wiped them out first...)